Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

As you might deduce from this blog and also from my radio shows, I have been listening to Steve Gunn for quite a while and hence eagerly anticipated his new album “The Unseen In Between” (Matador). The sheer multitude of Steve’s outputs, collaborations, musical interests and the scope of his guitar playing as well as his dedication to music is second to none.

When I heard the first few songs of Steve Gunn’s new album, I was amazed at how lush they sounded and still intimate, how light and yet bittersweet, how much he has managed to find his voice, both literally and in his lyrics, his probably most personal, yet leaving room for your own reflection. Do yourself a favour and make that new album a companion on your way into spring and summer and also do not miss your chance to see Steve Gunn introduce “The Unseen In Between” live. Songs of the new album and a well-chosen array of older material were also presented by Steve and his immaculate touring band on February, 15th at Nochtspeicher in Hamburg, Germany, which I could gladly attend.

Also, yet again, Steve Gunn took time out between soundcheck and dinner to talk. Considering the wealth of music and musical interests, Steve has to offer, those interviews could last forever (and Steve would even be too polite to cut them short) but still, this is a huge one but I hope you enjoy it reading it until the very end. If you would like to check out older interviews with Steve, find them here and here.

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

Interview with Steve Gunn on the “The Unseen In Between” Tour at Nochtspeicher, Hamburg, Germany, February 15th, 2019

Offbeat Music Blog: So thank you, Steve, for taking the time!

Steve Gunn: Sure!

OMB:  You’re looking well and relaxed.

Steve: (laughs) Thank you! It’s early on the tour, it’s day four, so I’m feeling pretty good.

OMB: The new album “The Unseen In Between” (Matador) turned out to be a beauty.

Steve:  Thank you so much!

OMB: The last time we met, that was just in between the passing of your father and the election…

Steve: Oh my gosh, yeah…

OMB: …of what shouldn’t be called the President of the US but it is.

Steve: Yeah, oh, what a weird time that was. 

OMB: It was a crazy time.

Steve: It is funny to think that was almost four years ago, I mean three years ago, I guess.

OMB:  I think so, yeah, three almost. But then you had still a busy time: You went on tour with Lee Ranaldo.

Steve: I did, yeah. 

OBM: But I think, you took a break then, didn’t you?

Steve: I did. I took a break probably shortly after we spoke, after that tour. I remember the last night. We were in Manchester and it was the last show of the tour. And it was rainy. And the election had happened. And we all flew our separate ways. And that was it. It was in the end like the closing of a book almost. Then I was home for a few months and I had been thinking about all these songs and had all these ideas and when I got home I closed the door on the touring and the past album and started a totally new project, like buying a new notebook sort of thing (laughs).  

I have a rehearsal space in Brooklyn and I really kept a schedule. I’d never really done that before. But I had all these feelings and things floating around my head and had no real channel to get them out. So I was going to my rehearsal space every day for the whole day, basically.

OMB: Sort of forcing it out?

Steve: Yeah. I think, before, I was always relying on inspiration to visit me and this time I was trying to summon it, I suppose. And learning about writers and poets or artists. I think that the really good ones and the ones that you think, perhaps, they’re just pulling this stuff out of thin air: It actually takes a lot of work and a lot of discipline and I felt like I wanted to try that a little harder and rely on it a little more? 

So even if I wasn’t working or rather if I wasn’t coming up with anything, I still considered it important to be doing it. It actually took a long time for me to come up with some of the songs but you know, I think it was all that time and work that I had been playing and editing and thinking, just being alone. It really was just a different way to work and it felt like it was rewarding.

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

OMB: So, you collected the songs over some time. Did you think they fitted into one kind of framework?

Steve: You mean like just one whole big vision? 

OMB: Yeah.

Steve: A little bit. Well, production wise, I had been talking to a few people, but I was on the road – I always mention him when we speak – with James Elkington – we were on the road together. And he’s my very close friend and almost confidante where I ask him about what I should do, or how I should approach things. And he’s very smart, and he has so much experience. He’s also very pragmatic and I always value his advice. So, we were talking quite a bit about this new record. And, you know, we were coming up with this plan as we were talking, and then I realised – after visiting all these studios and speaking to a few producers – that I’m not that kind of a musician. I didn’t really want to have a producer. I already knew I can trust all the stuff with my close friends. James, for instance, he just knows how I work and I think there’s a shorthand involved and I thought it would be really cool to hand over the production part of it to him. Not so much the engineering part, but navigating the songs, knowing the arrangements, knowing where I’m coming from.

OMB: Because he knows what you are getting at?

Steve: Yeah and also, we just talk about music all day and gear and we had everything kind of figured out within a few hours of talking and I think with another person or giving up certain artistic control to a producer… not to say that it wouldn’t be its own thing or be great in its own respect…but I didn’t want to give these ideas up to someone who might not necessarily know how to facilitate them.

OMB: It could have gone wrong.

Steve: Yeah, and it just made everything so easy because one of the main topics that we discussed was to reduce everything and to do it more simple and there don’t have to be like seven things going on at once, so it can just be your guitar and your vocals and just 

sort of simple ideas. We kept talking about those kinds of things and we came up with this very simple plan. 

I visited this really amazing studio in New York. And it all just sort of aligned itself in this cool way. And then in the studio, I became friendly with the engineer. He was like “Hey, I have Bob Dylan’s bass player in here today, he was working on a session with some other people. And, you know, he really likes the studio”, the engineer was saying. “Tony’s really hitting it off well, and he was wondering what was going on in the studio. I told him you were coming in here and he was interested and he heard some of the demos and…”

Meanwhile he’s telling me all this and I’m slightly freaking out like “oh my gosh”, because Jim and I were just going to do the bass stuff and figure it out but it just so happened that a week before, Tony, Tony Garnier is his name, was interested in coming and even just playing for one day and seeing how it went. And it turned out, he walked in and we all just became fast friends and hit it off immediately. He was having such a great time. We were just so thrilled to have him there. Jim and I and also the drummer, this guy, TJ, Tony kind of just saw something really interesting going on. And I think it felt, you know, somewhat refreshing for him to see some younger guys trying to approach an album almost in a kind of a way that is almost lost. Recording, where you have a room and you’re trying to get a live room sound and you want to have a presence of the band actually playing.

OMB: Also like a jamming thing?

Steve: Yeah. I imagine, Jim and I talked about this endlessly. Like you have these session musicians, almost like the group called The Wrecking Crew which was Hal Blaine who was the drummer who just passed away and a bunch of other musicians. They are so accomplished, they can walk in and support a guy coming in or someone coming in with songs where they don’t have to rehearse so much. Just get a feel for it, do a couple takes…It’s what we were trying to go for.

Jim had the bass arrangements ready so he could transfer them to Tony and yeah, we just sort of went from there and we were doing stuff really on the fly. What was cool was, Tony decided to stay for the whole session and he became invested in it and he was very encouraging to me.  Because, you know, there are so many different ways you can make an album. His whole thing was´(and I really think, he gets this from playing with Bob Dylan so much):  “Just go in there and sing your song. There’s nothing else to it. You know, just be yourself.” He instilled this different sense of being present and being confident and not worrying about it. 

OMB: You do sound as if you are becoming more confident about the singing, just letting go?

Steve: Yeah, it was almost like a cathartic sort of thing for me. Well, I also remembered when I did this album before (“Eyes On The Lines”) and there was a lot of pressure and it was rushed. Now there was a lot going on and I just felt like I didn’t have anything to lose. And I had some things to say and I really just let myself go a bit. Yeah, it felt so easy. I felt as if we had been building up to it and all the discussions and all those days of me going to my rehearsal space and all the editing and working on the words as much as I could and going over it two, three, four, five, six, seven times and getting it right and revising stuff… I think,  well there were also other things that just kind of came up very quickly and then that was it and then we moved on. Like for instance the song “Morning Has Mended”: I wrote it very fast and I went and recorded it in one day and then we moved on. 

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

OMB: It does have a light touch to it, the album. Maybe what pop songs in the original meaning should sound like. Maybe you keep the more experimental ideas now to, say, your collaboration with John Truscinski?

Steve: Yeah, John and I are still playing a ton and we worked on a film soundtrack. And we played with Kim Gordon for another soundtrack as well. We are performing that this summer with her and another guitar player named Bill Nace. 

So John and i are still very engaged with what we do and yeah, I think, I’d like to have those things separated a bit. I really have changed as a songwriter and there are certain things I’m doing now that I wouldn’t really have imagined myself doing in the past, just really knowing a bit more about songwriting. I don’t know, it just it took me so long to come to realise how you can write a song. And there’s a simplicity that is not easy to do. But some of my favourite songs are just so simple.

OMB: They sound simple but that’s probably the most difficult thing to do. 

Steve: That’s what I mean. Some of the best songs, my favourite Velvet Underground songs, are just a few chords. So for me, it took me so long. I think one reason was that when I was learning how to play guitar, I really kind of jumped into this virtuosic approach.

OMB: And you put a lot of time and effort in it.

Steve:  I put a lot of time into it. So it’s hard for me to pull back and just play a 1, 4, 5 chord progression in a major key you know, and this time I don’t know, I just was like, why not? 

OMB: Maybe you realised it’s not beneath you…

Steve: Yeah (laughs).

OMB:…and it actually turns out to be a good song and it is not easy to write a simple song.

Steve: Yeah, right! And it’s interesting to know and to hear people speak about what kind of musician they are, and what kind of parameters you can put around what you can do. And there’s another side to it as well: If I’m a musician only doing improvisation and droney noise stuff, I think that would be quite boring for me because I really like the challenge of trying to construct something within a formula and, and mixing it as well as improvising. I can’t do everything but for me that’s something that I enjoy you know. I wouldn’t want to just do one thing but they all correlate.  

OMB: Do you feel that after you’ve learned so much that you have all these techniques at hand and you can play with them without even thinking about it, it just gels?

Steve: Yeah, I think so. 

OMB: You don’t have to consciously strive for something. You just have the tools there and you go ahead.

Steve: I think also – I mean, you’ve seen me play before – but tonight as well,…The album ist very straight but there are certain things we’re feeling out on stage. And I use a lot of those tools where I let go at certain points. And, whether it’s this kind of stuff or the other things, I really have to get into it mentally. I can’t just go up there and “la la la”, just do it. It’s something that I internally have really encompass into myself and get in a meditative sort of state to make it work. To connect with the other players – we’re all similar in that way.

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

OMB: You were saying at the time that once you started singing, you had to kind of delegate the guitar work a bit. And that that was hard for you in the beginning. How does it feel now?

Steve: Yeah, really hard. it’s interesting, because that’s another point with the album, this new one, where I was thinking about these simple songs that are so inspiring to me. And I think there’s so much more to it than just guitar, bass, drums, whatever. It really comes down to the singing and the vocal delivery and the words, and for me, that’s really what I felt was important and what I concentrated on and I wanted to improve as a singer and I wanted to be comfortable and I worked on it. 

It’s actually funny because with these new songs and me trying to sing more and sing better and the songs are a bit simpler and I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is easy! It’s not a walk in the park by any means. But before I was doing all this complicated stuff and singing over it and I’ve sort of matured a bit in that respect and taken a step back.

OMB: You have Meg Baird singing on the album as well?

Steve: Yeah, that was really really great to finally collaborate with her. She’s someone who I’ve admired since I was still practicing and before I was ever performing, you know.

OMB: You’re a person who wouldn’t want to write confessional songs? Not in the Joni Mitchell kind of sense since you find that people would not be interested. Still, that album seems as personal as it probably could get for you with having a tribute to your father or a song about your father. And was that a one off? Or would you think you’re happy enough now to write more personal stuff?

Steve:  Yeah, I think it’s a new, I wouldn’t call it direction, a new topic for me or just a new subject or a new approach.

OMB: It is still pretty abstract. People would still be able to project their own thing onto the songs. 

Steve: Right, right. I really think it’s important just for me to have that kind of universality like a not so overly personal song where I am singing about my own experience specifically where it’s some sort of historical time frame of my own life. But at the same time there are certain songs like “Stonehurst Cowboy” where it was a song I knew I wanted to write as a tribute to my Dad. I’m also thinking about the people who are listening. And I mean, that’s all part of life, the experience that I had. And I’m reflecting on that. 

Thinking about my father’s story. I think that, particularly my Dad and his peers and his family went through a really strange, hard time and made lives for themselves. You know, I mean, I’m no psychologist by any means, but to get the full story and to come full circle with his life and to have him ill and dying essentially, and have him with me was this really almost beautiful, sad but beautiful kind of experience. And I really value this because a lot of people don’t have this opportunity. But I valued this time with him because I think that there is a lot of things that I wanted to figure out. I didn’t, of course, figure it all out. I carved my own path as an artist. And he was, you know, working class, a very poor kid. He and all of his friends were sent overseas and were in this senseless war. And all of them struggled with their own battles, with all kinds of different things. And there’s a lot of unspoken kind of pain. I think that comes along with families who’ve been at war, whether it’s parents, grandparents, and there’s a lot of undiscussed things and a lot of embedded psychoses. People deal with it in different ways.

Then I got more interested in that as I got older and I got more interested in his story. I understood the parameters of his experience a bit more just reading about it and learning about what actually happened. And the fact to have a firsthand source of the experience. It’s not something he wanted to talk about, but it was a part of his life. It’s part of my life as part of my family, my mom’s, my sister’s. So I thought it was important to really pay tribute to him in a way that other people can relate to. 

One thing that I really value the most in doing this: Having people to use the music for any kind of comfort or whatever they want to use it for and to give that to the world is important. I don’t want to take anything. I don’t want to say, here’s me and my new suit. Look at me, I look so cool. That’s not why I’m doing this. You know, for me, it’s, I think about people listening because this is what music does for me. And I’ve grown up using it as a tool. And it’s helped me in my life. And I feel like if I’m going to have a platform and do it, that’s how I want to be looked at. And that’s how I want to be interpreted. And some people use music for other reasons…

OMB: Some background…some dancing.

Steve: Yeah, and that’s fine, too. I mean, I do it as well. We were talking about experimental music. I love that stuff too. But do I want to play feedback and Indian like guitar skills and make records like that forever? I like telling a story. And I like the mystery of language. And I like playing with those kinds of things. And I like painting. I’m not a painter and not a filmmaker, but I like creating this imagery with words. 

OMB: Words are a very powerful instrument, also to create an atmosphere. 

Steve: Yeah. I’m inspired by people, particularly poets and artists and painters who are giving something else to people.

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

OMB: You wrote an introduction to a reissue of “The Words In Between” by Dave Evans on Earth Recordings. Listening to the title track in particular I was was thinking about you and thought how proper spooky that was that you used words on your album more than ever and called it “The Unseen In Between” and it was released shortly after the reissue of “The Words In Between” by an artist you really love.

Steve: It is interesting you caught that. I was definitely inspired by him and by that record and I really love that title. I think it’s somehow just stuck in my head. 

OMB: I had never heard of him before. You have a knack for really finding a lot of music .

Steve: That was an album where I go to record fairs and I talk to people who are record collectors and that was always one where they went: Hey, have you heard that record by Dave Evans?  Also, getting to know some of the older players like Michael Chapman and Mike Cooper and …(oh, I am drawing a blank, he shares the same name as your man from Jethro Tull and is a friend, unbelievable)…of course: Ian Anderson is a musician who lives in Bristol and in the early 

60s did the kind of blues or revising around England where he was playing folk music and was interested in the blues players. And he and Michael Chapman knew each other, and also Mike Cooper, they’re all around the same age. Ian Anderson had a label back in the 60s and put his own albums out which were really, really great. So, and then the label’s called The Village Thing, and it’s all more regional homegrown folk stuff, almost similar to Pentangle or more higher end folk musicians, but with their own kind of aesthetic and it was a community of musicians called the village thing and basically all these people lived around there. Dave Evans was and Ian put his album out. That was his first album. And he was quite an accomplished guitar player and he made his own guitars. Really interesting guy. He still lives. He lives in Belgium. I don’t know if he performs very much and he works in a guitar store. A very interesting character. The album is beautiful. I made friends with Ian Anderson in Bristol and we were just talking about all this stuff. Then Earth Recordings approached me to write something after I had written about an Anderson album and said they were going to reissue. I said “Oh my gosh, I’d be honoured.”

OMB: You also went to Wales to produce Michael Chapman’s new album “True North” which again is like a tribute to where he comes from, his upbringing?

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

Steve: Yeah, it was interesting to do that with him and quite rewarding. I also was honoured that he asked me again to do it and I felt like there’s something about Michael that’s so magical when he’s just sitting in a room playing for people. To me, he had gotten newly inspired and he had been writing all these great songs. We were trying to figure out what songs to do. And he had some older material and I went to his place, his house in England first, and we hung out for a day or two and picked the songs to work on. And then we drove down to Wales, and I really just wanted him to be comfortable and to play and sing at the same time and bring the people that he’s been playing with for a long time. The album’s got BJ Cole who has been playing with Michael since the 70s. And he is just an incredible pedal steel player. Sarah Smout is a cellist that has known Michael since she was a child and her father is basically Michael’s manager.  Kind of all in the family and also Bridget St. John was there, one of Michael’s dearest friends, and I’ve gotten to know her as well and it was just very, very intimate amid a super beautiful landscape in this really lovely place. 

I think it was a nice time in Michael’s life to do something that wasn’t in a studio with a bunch of people who want to play all over it but an engineer who was like just be yourself. Similar to what I was talking about with my last album. I was still in that kind of headspace. I wanted to capture just a very uncontrived, pure sense of what Michael is presently. He’s getting older and, you know, you can hear it in the album. But that’s kind of what makes it interesting. 

OMB: The music on your new album “The Unseen In Between”, there seems to be definitely some influence from The Smiths there?

Steve: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That comes from Jim, James Elkington, as well. I grew up listening to The Smiths and Johnny Marr, such an influential guitar player for me. And I remember reading about them, and learning about artists, even wondering, trying to decipher how Johnny Marr is layering these chords and how he’s arranging the songs. So because I listened to that stuff so much when I was younger, and then I shelved it a bit and then got into all this other stuff. And then later and later started revisiting it and talking to Jim and I found a new appreciation for The Smiths.  Musically and guitar wise it was a really interesting combination of things that that band was doing. I was also saying that I’ve gotten a little bit more oriented with pop stylings. 

OMB: Again, The Smiths probably sound very light. But it is very difficult to do. And also there’s this bittersweetness to it that suits your album very well.

Steve:  Yeah, totally. It’s very sharp and biting a bit and it’s also a little bit vague and it’s very poetic but also sounds lush. 

OMB: Lush, exactly, that was the first thing I thought when I heard your new album.

It does have quite a few layers but only where necessary. How are you able to reproduce that on a tour or are you finding your way around it or improvising?

Steve: It’s not easy. Finding my own way, yes. Yeah, I mean, luckily, I have a lot of great musicians that I play with. It’s a different thing, you know, of course, but we try to make it all work. It’s all part of the job where you have effects and you figure out the sounds and you listen to the album and say: “Okay, well, let’s try this part this way”, and sort of keep tweaking it and trying to get it right. And then also as we continue to play, and as I I often play with different people, sometimes it shifts around and moves around and lives in different ways, and I really like that. I love the performative aspect of it. So the album is the album. The songs I don’t necessarily want to play note for note as the album is and I like that kind of looseness to it. Obviously, it’s not that loose. 

OMB: But it still has range to develop according to your development or your mood.

Steve:  And yeah, it was great to have Meg. Meg was on tour with us in the States. That was really lovely to have her singing with me and she was playing keyboards. And I was like, whoa! Really filled it out a bit. You know, she was doing all this great textural stuff, so that was nice. 

Steve Gunn talks about The Unseen In Between

OMB: You are used to playing with all sorts of musicians but this is like a completely new band you are going on tour with?

Steve: Well, the two guys that I’ve played with here in Europe, I’ve been playing with them for a bunch of years now. Eric and Tommy.

OMB: All right, Tommy and Erik from Belgium.  

Steve: Yeah. They’re always enlisted to be in the band and then learn the songs. Then the other guitar player Will is someone who I admired for years. He’s been in a few bands and I just asked him if he was interested and I gave him the time slots. It’s interesting because the people that I play with are doing different things, they play their own music, they play with a few other people. So I know it’s nice not to have to pull all the commitment from them.

So I like to be a bit more open about it. And I’m lucky to know some really great people who want to do it.

OMB: James Elkington is on tour with Jeff Tweedy.

Steve: Yeah. James is on tour with Jeff Tweedy. Can’t really bump him off of that (laughs). Maybe someday. 

I admire Jeff so much. And all those people. Jim is a part of that community. And I’ve benefitted from that and gotten to know Nels and Jeff and those people and that kind of community and they’re all just really interesting and supportive. 

OMB: But that’s probably the mark also of musicians who are not artificially made but have a craft and build a network, play with other people and get inspired by other people. Which is a good thing for the listeners as well, because that gets us to know other musicians as well.

Steve: Yeah, cool. Making the connections. 

OMB: I don’t know if you read reviews?

Steve: Some, I kind of stopped. 

OMB: Some are, possibly like myself, saying, this is a brilliant album and I like where he is going and I kind of knew that was coming and it is very well done. And others are:  What’s with all the singing and where’s the guitar playing. I mean you can never please everybody but do you sometimes feel that people want you to do a certain thing and stick with it?

Steve: (laughs) I think so yeah. People want to hear certain things that I do and I’m doing all kind of different things. And they’re like, where’s your signature guitar playing? I’m like, that’s in there. And it’s all me.

It’s very strange being in the music business and having to put yourself out there in that way and having to adhere to certain things and be open to it and put yourself in almost not compromising positions. But maybe, you know, I’ve learned so much from working with Matador and they’ve been so supportive of me and what I want to do, but they also have their parameters as well. They make me work really hard and they were putting me back in the studio and had all these suggestions and actually they were right in the very end, but it was hard work, you know.

Being in a studio and thinking you’re done and you high five, and everybody in there, you’re thinking like I’m the fucking man, walking around, and then all of a sudden, I’m not.

OMB: Thinking, ah, that’s a burden off my shoulders. 

Steve: Sure. Yeah, I’m just the best. – No, you’re not the best, get back in there and we need more material. – Really? Oh my god. 

So that kind of stuff is very humbling. Also it made for a better album and and they know what they’re talking about. So it’s a different thing and, you know, for me, that’s fine.

OMB: But isn’t it very demotivating?

Steve: Yeah, but I mean, it’s great, they had a plan and I’m happy that they pushed me in that way, and I feel like they’re also satisfied. But to get back to the reviews. I have a hard time with them sometimes because I feel like I can tell when people are being lazy. I can tell when people are just grabbing things and they’re not making discretional decisions for themselves.There’s all these signposts saying “Okay, I’m going to write this review of this person. I’ve listened to the album twice. Okay. It’s not really my thing. But I googled him. Okay, he was in Kurt Vile’s band”. This kind of thing. 

OMB: But your time in Kurt Vile’s band was such a short one and is so unrepresentative of what you do. It is just because people know Kurt Vile.

Steve: Yeah, that’s exactly what I mean.  But some of the reviews are very thoughtful which I like. But sometimes l go: “This sucks. You’re not even giving it a chance.  You’re not even really listening or no, you don’t know where I’m coming from and you’re just making these assumptions”. But I guess that’s what people do. I mean, I don’t expect everyone to know. But sometimes it feels like there’s these channels and there’s these trends going on within the indie world.

OMB: That’s what I was going to say. Especially for people in the indie scene – whenever you make something a bit more poppy sounding or moving to a bigger label, people assume it’s not hip or out there anymore, right?

Steve: Yeah, exactly. But I don’t harbour any bad feelings. And I get it. And I’ve learned to not really let it bother me. There were a couple of years, where I was just like, man…there was a pitchfork review and it was the worst review I’ve ever come across. There’s no depth to it. You could tell that this person didn’t really listen to the album, pulled things from my biography and maybe read a few most recent press pieces. Why were you assigned to do this? I sometimes think it’s just a bit harsh, you know, it’s like why would you do this? It’s just a bit disrespectful and thoughtless.

But at the same time, I don’t want to concentrate on the negative.

OMB: Exactly, you have to see where it is coming from. If someone is assigned to do this and merely sees it as a job or not. The reviews always have to be taken with a pinch of salt, I think. 

Steve: Yeah, and I also think that there’s been some great, very thoughtful pieces as well, which I really admire. Like the one of John Mulvey.

OMB: Of course, of Mojo.

Steve: He wrote such a thoughtful review. He’s been following my stuff and kind of sees the progression and he contextualises it and it’s really beautiful. So I am grateful for these kind of responses.

OMB: Thank you very much, Steve and all the best for the tour!

Steve: Thank you!

Seamus Fogarty – an interview

Seamus Fogarty is on a massive tour in mainland Europe, so he says himself. Following the release of his EP The Old Suit (Domino), he will be visiting further destinations, see here. Offbeat took the opportunity to visit a gig in Cologne, Germany, at the lovely venue Die Wohngemeinschaft on February, 4th 2019 and had the chance to speak to Seamus Fogarty before the concert.

Folktronica, that’s what Seamus Fogarty does, if you believe the hype. Yes, he comes from a traditional music background and he loves fiddling about with synths, but to reduce his songs to these two influences would be unfair. In front of us tonight stands a performer who offers a sheer endless variety of musical styles, is well-crafted after years of live performances, tells a good story and, well, does much more than I expected him to.

I did not expect Seamus Fogarty to play songs from his whole oeuvre, to have such a tight rhythm section (Aram on drums and Johnny on bass) with him who even do a well-choreographed dance (yep!), to sound like a huge band, to offer such diverse music, to be dedicated, in good spirits and courteous despite the rather meagre audience (a cold Monday night in Cologne with lots of other things going on) and to present to us Lisa O’Neill.

I barged too late into Lisa’s set (soooorrrreee, that Falafel sandwich was huge, took ages) and there she was, Lisa O’Neill, doing what Seamus does so well, but on her own and in a raw traditional style: The story-telling. Also before the musical story-telling she explained how the songs came about and there is many a very touching song and story there, social and political awareness but also very funny ideas that she talks about with a deadpan face (and that had me laughing like a drain. I would love to tell you the story about Elvis, but you will just have to go, see Lisa and hear it for yourself).

Seamus Fogarty - an interview

Luckily, I only had to shed tears with laughter as Seamus refrained from playing those songs that are pure heartache, thinking maybe, it might be a bit much in such an intimate surrounding. A marvellous evening was had by those attending and I hope it wasn’t so bad for Lisa, Seamus, Aram and Johnny either. You will find Seamus Fogarty’s latest releases “The Old Suit” and “The Curious Hand” on Domino Records and Lisa O’Neill’s much acclaimed album “Heard A Long Gone Song” is out on River Lea.

So, there you have it, I won’t be giving away any more, only this and this is a lot, an interview with Seamus Fogarty. Read it below, Seamus in his own words.

Offbeat Music Blog: Thank you very much for taking the time, Seamus!

Seamus Fogarty: My pleasure!

OMB: Please, Seamus, would you tell us something about yourself? You’re originally from Ireland and started out doing music there, I suppose?

SF: Yeah, I’m from the West of Ireland and grew up in the middle of nowhere. I started playing traditional Irish music when I was about four or five years old. I then played that for a few years and became a teenager and dropped all that and started playing the guitar. I started getting a broader taste in music, I guess, and listening to different labels like Drag City Records and Domino. I went and travelled for a while and started playing music in Irish bars, playing covers. Then I started to write my own tunes. I used to slip them into the setlist and that went on for a few years.  I went back to Ireland and did all sorts of stuff, not really musical, but I kept writing and started recording my ideas and learning how to produce. I met up with the guys in Scotland, Fence Records in 2009. That’s ten years ago (whistles) and now here we are. 

OMB: You went on from Fence Records to Johnny Lynch’ Lost Map Records? 

SF: I did. I worked with Johnny at Fence. He’s just a really inspirational guy and when he started up this new label, I jumped at the opportunity to work with him a bit more. I am still really good friends with him and he’s really good for advice. He’s a great dude!

OMB: Have you played on his Howlin’ Fling Festival on the Isle of Eigg as well?

SF: Yeah, I have. Don’t remember it but I have a few times (laughs)!

OMB: It must be a glorious festival but a bit rough, isn’t it?

SF: It’s phenomenal! Are you going to go? I think, it’s sold out again. 

OMB: The tickets were sold out like in five minutes!

SF: It is an unforgettable experience!

OMB: And you were signed by Domino, just like former Fence labelmate James Yorkston?

SF: That was amazing. Because I had been listening to the guys on that label since, you know…I remember, my brother brought home a CD from Amsterdam in maybe 2000, no maybe like 19951996 even, when Domino had just started as a label and I have been listening to them ever since. It was really like a kind of “pinch myself” moment when I went into the office and talked to the guys there. 

OMB: You have been located in London now for quite a while but you do go back to Ireland to write, do you?

SF: I guess so. I mean, I’ll write anywhere I can but sometimes I find it is going back there and getting away from the greyness of London, even though Ireland is very grey…but it is quite green as well, so that balances it out. I think there is just a slower pace back in Ireland. It is a bit more conducive to gathering your thoughts. 

OMB: You only released “The Curious Hand” late 2017 and followed that up very quickly with the EP “The Old Suit” last year. There is a special story behind that EP, would you like to tell us about that?

SF: This time last year I went back to Ireland just to give myself a bit of space and a breather. And also, I was expecting our first child, so I knew I was not going to get much of an opportunity to just take off and write songs for a while. So, I am back there and it was just after one of my friends, Willy, passed away. I was down there for two weeks on my own, in County Kerry. I thought about him a lot. That song is just about seeing him before he died but it was also celebrating him as well. It’s not meant to be really sad/sad even though it is a sad thing. But I liked the idea of…there is a lot about flight and wings and stuff. It’s not new unexplored territory but for a reason sometimes it is nice to think about people, once they are gone, that rather than being buried, their soul would lift off.

OBM: James Yorkston did something similar on his upcoming album “The Road To Harmonium”, thinking about people who have passed, events that have passed, but life goes on and they are still with you and you are celebrating the memories. 

SF: Yeah, I think this is important. Because you sometimes forget or it takes a while to really appreciate the good times you had with people after they leave and sometimes it can be a really nice feeling that can warm you up when you are feeling down. To think “that was nice” and keep going. 

Seamus Fogarty - an interview

OBM: On your albums you have the cheerful songs, the funny ones and then the heartbreakingly tender ones like “Christmas On Jupiter”. They are not planned as concept albums or are they?

SF: Well, you know, with the last album, when I had this bunch of songs, I would think very carefully how I would sequence the songs. 

OBM: Do you think about the songs as in an album since nowadays people tend to think more in individual songs for streaming.

SF: Oh I think about the sequence of songs. It should be like a journey for the listener. It is really important to me. It is like when you make a TV series. You can watch one episode and it could be really good but you really get the value out of it if you go from episode one to two, three, four, five, six..the whole thing. If people just want to watch episode five, that’s fair enough. Once it’s out there, it’s up to whoever. I don’t want them to do what I tell them. If they just want to listen to one song…that’s what it is today, people make playlists and so your song could be in a total different context to how you originally thought it would be. 

OMB: It’s that and also, you wrote the songs with one thing in mind but once they are out, people make them their own.

SF: Yeah, exactly. That’s why you do it, otherwise, what’s the point in putting them out there? 

OMB: You know, the music industry puts artists into genres. You are put into “folktronica”. Are you happy with that?

SF: Ach, I mean…I consider myself just a songwriter and a kind of producer. I understand why people call me – especially – folk: I use a banjo, I might tell a story, the lead vocal is important. But it really doesn’t bother me, I don’t mind what they want to label me as, as long as they buy the records and come to the gigs – they can call me Europop, it’s fine. 

OMB: It’s basically the music you grew up with and that you later listened to but you also take a lot of sounds from your surroundings?

SF: Yeah, I mean, I used to listen to lots of Aphex Twin and Autechre and even John Cage and Steve Reich and these people. Especially John Cage, there was a totally different way to look at sound. It’s not even music but just sound as an art form. So when I made a mistake and thought I shouldn’t have and I can’t have that in there, I was like, you know, actually, that makes it more interesting and it is unexpected, so I just leave it in there.

OMB: It serves a purpose?

SF: Exactly, I chose to leave it in there and it has become part of the song or the composition. 

OMB: Is that very difficult to bring on stage?

SF: It is pretty difficult. If you come in tonight, you can see me flapping around up there on stage. I have been making mistakes on the stage for like ten years. Especially when I use electronics, loads of things go wrong. That’s the show. There is not much in the way of backing tracks. There’s lots of live electronics. Yeah, stuff goes wrong all the time but that’s how it is. It is not a kind of perfect thing. It has grown since 2011 and slowly got a bit more…it works more often but it still goes wrong plenty of times as well. 

OMB: But it’s part of the live experience. 

SF: Yeah, exactly, it’s part of the live experience and I have such a good band as well. It becomes part of the show, part of the music. Sometimes the mistakes are really cool. “Dunno how I did that but that was really good!” Sometimes not so. 

Seamus Fogarty - an interview

OMB: Are you with a touring band or is this the band you always play with?

SF: I played with Aram, the drummer, for the last six or seven years. I’ve done a few shows with Johnny, the bass player, last year. This will be the first tour with him but I have known him for a long time. 

OMB: If you introduce a musician new to the band, do you find, that they always see your music the way you see it?

SF: No, not really, but then they bring their own kind of stamp to it. 

OMB: And that’s okay?

SF: Of course, else I wouldn’t have them in the band. 

OMB: Part of the development of the songs?

SF: Yeah, exactly. And it becomes new. When there is a new band, it sounds different. Cannot even say whether better or worse, just different. But that’s good, it freshens it up for me. 

OMB: So tonight you are playing with Lisa O’Neill?

SF: Yeah, oh, I have known Lisa for a million years. She’s brilliant. We have been playing gigs with Lisa since about 2006 or 2007 in Dublin. And I played on the album before last, “Puddle In The Sky”. She’s a great friend and a great inspiration. I think she is amazing. I think we are really lucky and delighted to have her for these shows. 

OMB: You are still in a close network with the Fence colleagues like Rozi Plain and James Yorkston for instance?

SF: Yeah. They are people who I met when I just moved over to London like Rozi, she’s great. She’s played with me before and she’s on my album. James, I toured with James loads. It is like a network of people.

OMB: And you have the same kind of mindset?

SF: Yeah, you’ve gone like the same route. Yes. We all kind of support each other, crying on each other’s shoulders (laughs). 

OMB: In the tough music business? How do you find it that digitalisation and the internet has given the services like bandcamp to artists who can release their music themselves if not on a label? Do you think it makes it easier for a musician?

SF: Yeah, I think so. I guess, social media plays such a big part in it which I am useless at, crap at.  I am just too tired.

OMB: I was just going to ask whether you are comfortable with the the social media?

SF: The thought of it makes me fall asleep but it is such a thing nowadays. I wish I was a bit faster. You know, I sit there thinking for like a few hours, aaargh, what’s the funniest way, what’s the best caption I can put on this picture of, like, a salt cellar? And try to get people to share it. Och, it’s…But I think there is a whole new generation of musicians that are growing up promoting themselves and it is a way to get out there. 

OMB: Has its downsides as well like streaming services that maybe musicians were hoping not to come out of that. 

SF: Oh yeah, totally. But that’s just progress, bla bla. There will be now driverless taxis out soon and then there will be no jobs for taxi drivers. Honestly, yeah, everything just goes on. It is not necessarily better but it has been this way since the industrial revolution. 

OMB: So, what’s up next? With one album out the door, you must be writing and collecting ideas already?

SF: Trying, but I have a young baby…

OMB: Congratulations!

SF: Thank you! But it does not leave much room for going off to Ireland for two weeks. 

OMB: I know.

SF: But I do my best. I have about half an album’s worth, I guess. Have to knock out another five or six really good songs. So maybe in the next few months, work at that. There are a few festivals coming up as well, that’ll be good for the summer.

OMB: You were at Green Man Festival last year?

SF: That was amazing. And it was so sunny. I have been there loads and most of the time, it’s just rain. 

OMB: Welsh weather…

SF: Absolutely. They are nearly worse than Ireland. 

OMB: Maybe in Ireland you only get the rest of what didn’t rain down on Wales. Ah, I know, the rain is coming in from the west, so that does not work out. 

If you had no time or financial pressure, what would be dreaming of doing? Say, you lie in bed and think, oh yeah, I really would love to see myself in that picture.

SF: I just would like to have a big room for six months and I would like to sit in it with a few synths and stuff and just make funny noises. That’s it. That’ll be it.

OMB: Very modest! 

SF: And maybe have a chef, somebody to cook me nice meals. And see what comes out of it. That’s kind of the way the last few albums happened. Fiddling around and finding an idea. But almost stumbling on them. I am not really good at sitting down and…

OMB: Planning?

SF: Yeah. So, just a bit of time. Time. That’s all.

OMB: Can’t buy time.

SF: Indeed, yeah. 

OMB: Just the synths and the sounds? You are a wizard on the banjo, too?

SF: Oh no, no.

OMB: Is that what you learned as a kid?

SF: I only found that banjo in Limerick in 2005 when moving into a house. And I had never played the banjo before but I played the violin which is a bit the same. It’s great, I love that banjo. As soon as I found it, I was like, I am keeping this banjo. It’s been with me ever since. 

OMB: If you started out on the violin at such a young age, your family must be very musical.

SF: It would be musical yeah. My brother, John, plays with me a lot. 

OMB: Brings us back to the start. Hope the tour goes really well for you and thank you very much.

SF: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure!

Seamus Fogarty - an interview

Spain’s Josh Haden – an interview

Josh Haden’s band Spain has had a long and winding career. Throughout the band’s existence their output of six studio albums, however, has had a consistent level of high quality. Their music is among the critics’ favourites, the fans are faithful. Deservedly so, as Spain is a band that offers genuine and heartfelt and well-crafted songs that never bow to trends, never try to endear themselves to the business and above all remain absolutely timeless. It is always mentioned that Josh Haden is the son of jazz legend Charlie Haden. Yes, Josh has immense musical pedigree, also on his mother’s side, even down to his grandparents and his triplet sisters Petra, Tanya and Rachel hypnotise with their own musical project The Haden Triplets. He also has talent, of course, and/or a gift for music. But more than three decades playing and honing his craft, he can by now, I think, maybe, also express it like this: Charlie Haden was the father of Josh Haden. I felt very honoured that Josh took the time for this: Spain’s Josh Haden – an interview.

Spain have just released their sixth album “Mandala Brush” on Glitterhouse Records/Dangerbird and I am looking forward a lot to have still hours of listening pleasure ahead of me as there is much to explore on their new oeuvre again. During the release, Spain were already on tour in Europe and you can still catch them in Germany, Denmark, France and Italy. I had never before seen Spain live and when they started off their set at Eupen’s Alter Schlachthof (thank you, all the lovely people at this wonderful venue and also Chris as tour manager and Judith for your help), it went like this:

The bottles of Eupener beer came in handy and were used for making hooting sounds that were repeated by the instruments, came and went and changed and it went all experimental and free jazzy and to my utmost astonishment, very magical, warm and above all inclusive and humorous and not a bit self-indulgent. Turns out to be a rendition of “(Korean letters) God Is Love” from their new album. At this point let me tell you who is on tour with Josh Haden: His sister Petra Haden on vocals and violin (simply wow, the violin playing and that voice, especially in the encore, the very famous “Spiritual” – I noticed, almost blue in the face, that I had been holding my breath and that there were tears trickling down my face), the versatile and expert and straightout great peformers Kenny Lyon on guitar (and melodion?), Shon Sullivan on acoustic guitar and keys and Jakob Hoyer on drums. Spain continued with a couple of renderings of their new album “Mandala Brush”, a bit of banter, especially on Mr. Trump (much more of that later in the interview), and many perfectly rendered classics from the older albums. Just go and see them live, for goodness’ sake, and be bewitched. After a French venue did so and Josh really appreciating it, he has ever since labelled Spain’s music as indie, americana, slowcore, free jazz (I think) for those of you who would like to place them somewhere. Well, Spain’s Spain and that’s more than good enough.

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview

Now make way for Josh Haden. Well, and yes, I am almost interested how musicians or artists in general feel in the U.S. these days and Josh went for it. But other than that, lend him an ear when he talks about his new album, the music industry and a lot more right now in his own words:

 

Offbeat Music Blog: Thank you very much for taking the time, Josh!

Josh Haden: Thanks for having me!

OMB: Your band Spain is gracing Eupen tonight with a rare concert on the release of your new album “Mandala Brush”. I would like to go back in time a bit. You come from a musical family – it couldn’t get any more musical. Your sister Petra Haden is with you on tour, you have to more sisters who are musicians, your father was a famous musician and your mother is one too. Was there any point in your life and even if was out of sheer teenage rebellion where you said: “I am not going to be a musician”?

Josh: Well, not really. I have always been interested in music and I grew up with musicians, so it seemed pretty natural. But I also like reading books. I grew up with lots of books around and I also wanted to be a writer and I am still working on that. But so far the music takes up all my time. 

OMB: There has been a point in your career, not a loss of interest in music from your side but hassle with the music industry, let’s put it this way. I read somewhere, it not only almost destroyed your livelihood but you did not find the energy to play. Is that true and how did you overcome that?

Josh: Well, this was a long time ago and I was much younger and I think I had a little bit too much pride and not enough willingness to compromise. I said to myself, if I cannot do it my way, I am not going to do it. I took a little time off and went to a school for writing. I wasn’t really happy there. Then this rap producer Dan The Automator contacted me and asked me if I wanted him to produce my record because I stilled owed a record to this company called Dreamworks that doesn’t exist anymore. That’s when I got back into music. It was really just a few years I did not do much music. Spain, the band, were the project I did put on hiatus for quite a few years. In ended that in 2001 and did not start again until 2008. The first record of the reboot, I guess you can call it, was not until 2010. So that was quite a few years. 

OMB: Did you, during that time, look for musicians who would share the same goals, the same vision?

Josh: I would never be that lucky. It was a matter of musicians who could play well and had understood what I was trying to do and who were of the musician’s mindset…not every musician can tour. Not every musician has the personality that allows them to tour. Also money, having the budget for it…I am never out of ideas but I am constantly out of money. Money is usually the biggest hurdle preventing something from being released and being able to properly promote it and tour for it. So, musicians, you know, that’s always a process. There is nothing complicated about it. It is just finding the right people. Sometimes you think you found the right person but it turns out you didn’t and you have to find someone else. Not that there is anything wrong with that musician but it might not work in that particular project. That’s a process. 

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview
Spain – Petra Haden and Kenny Lyon in background

OMB: You are from California, a fairly liberal and progressive state. How do find it, living in the US at the moment?

Josh: Well, that could take a long time to answer. It is really worth everybody asking themselves that and give their own answer. I am me and I think to myself: How could anybody support dictators? Or people who aspire to be dictators? I ask myself that. Of course I don’t support politicians like that but there are people who do. There are quite a few and they have to ask themselves these questions too. It’s not just happening in the States – it is happening in Europe too. So, young people don’t get very good educations, they are not properly reminded of the lessons of World War II. You have people in America who really, really think that the Nazis should have won World War II and that’s the Trump supporters. Then you have people in Italy who feel the same way. What Trump wants…I don’t know if it’s Trump but definitely his supporters and people in his administration, when they say they want to turn the clock back to a better time, make America great again, what they are saying is, they want to turn the clock back to before World War II. They want to be in a place where there can be a dictatorship that runs the world. They feel if they don’t achieve that, it’s going to be “kaputt” for the world. It’s a consolidation of power because Conservatives believe, even though they say they don’t believe this, that global warming is going to shut the world down and the people who have the money and the resources are going to be the survivors. They are acting out of a survival instinct, at least in their mind. And if you are reading interviews with them, this is what they say, I am not making it up. Trump, ha, Trump, I am not sure, if he is intelligent enough to think about it in these terms. He’s like Hilary Clinton. I am not against Hilary Clinton. I support Hilary Clinton. He is like the kind of politician who will change his views. If he sees that the tide is turning in a certain direction, he will change his views. But a lot of his supporters like, Stephen Miller, I think his name is – that guy is scary. He’s like Himmler basically. And the guy John Bolton – this is just my opinion – but John Bolton who is now Secretary of State or something, I don’t even remember anymore, that guy is really scary. He scares me more than Trump does because he is sitting next to Trump and tells him what to do. (Sighs). 

OMB: Like a puppet on a string…

Josh: He would not call himself that.

OMB: Of course not. 

Josh: It’s possible. But you know, I really do think that…I am a musician and make living making music and recording and writing songs and trying to communicate stuff that I am thinking about in song and writing poetry and stories and putting them to music and touring and playing concerts and bringing that music to people, so I am on a different kind of thinking playing field. I wish that all kids, teenagers probably…every single teenager in the world including the Middle East and Eastern Europe and Africa and Antarctica, that they are required to either to tour as a musician or tour as a roadie or something that gets them out of their hometown and to see the world. Usually when people tour they have a perspective on other human beings and how other human beings live that they won’t get if they stay at home and just watch TV and listen to their conservative parents. Hopefully they won’t have conservative parents. I think there would be a lot of a different kind of atmosphere if every kid could have an experience like that. But you know, I tour and I don’t have to think about Trump and what’s going on. I get notices on my phone like everyone else and usually I am fine. But today, just an hour ago, I got this notice from The New York Times and it says: The US moves hundreds of migrant children to a desert tent facility in Texas in the middle of the night with no education and no access to lawyers. And that’s like…How can anyone support Trump for doing that? For not speaking out against that and saying: This is wrong. And that’s depressing. And then I think about my son and how would my son feel if he was taken from me? And I could just picture that and here’s hundreds of kids going through that. All kids are the same. 

OMB: To some they are not. They are being dehumanised. 

Josh: Exactly. They are doing that on purpose and this is going back to what Republicans want to do. The Republicans in the United States want to get rid of labour unions. If they get rid of labour unions, the next they want to do is to cut the employment age for children and they want children back in factories working for pennies. That’s completely what they want. That’s why we have cheap Apple products and cheap clothing because there are seven-year old, eight or nine-year old kids in Thailand or Indonesia and China working in sweatshops. We have laws against that in the States. The reason why is because of labour unions, because of socialism. This is another reason they are trying to consolidate power. They see the world is going to end, at least they think it is, and when overpopulation and global warming destroys half of the planet and half of the planet is habitable, we are going to be the survivors. That’s what they are saying and if we have seven-year old kids working in factories and putting stuff together and we don’t have to pay them anything, we are going to make even more money. That’s what they want. (Laughs bitterly).

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview
Spain – Shon Sullivan

OMB: As a musician, what has been the impact for artists? In what terms do you see the Arts being infringed, financially or culturally?

Josh: I would not say financially for me but the Arts in general, yeah, because there is less funding. A lot of times when we are in Europe we are playing in venues that are partially or entirely supported by the government. We don’t have that in the States. There is support for the Arts but with Trump in office it gets less. They give less money to the Arts because “why should we support the Arts? The Arts is critical of us. Why should we support something that is criticising us?” That’s what they think. Also, the religious Conservatives which is another big issue, they don’t want the Arts because the Arts are from Satan (laughs). That’s what they think. For me the biggest financial hit is from streaming music. But that’s just a reality. That’s got nothing to do with Trump. There was just a law passed in the States that ensures that musical artists will make more royalties from streaming services but I don’t really know.

OMB: On the one hand modern technology has been good for music artists as they can make their music, promote their music, get it all over the place without the big music industry. But on the other hand, someone is making money on the music and it is not them. That is not referring to say Bandcamp, but, er, the other big one.

Josh: Well, you know, it’s a racket. Music business was started by gangsters and the mafia and if a lot of money can be made with something, there is going to be graft and corruption. It is the same thing with streaming, only, instead of Warner Brothers, Columbia and Universal making all the money, it is Spotify and what are the other ones called…

OMB: Deezer?

Josh: Sound Exchange, the company that collects the money for Spotify streaming, in the States at least. It’s people who say, yeah, we can make a lot of money off artists. What could be better than this? We are making all the money. All we need to do is a little bit of coding. We have coders working for us and they can do the dirty work once we fix it up and then we make billions of dollars and we can go on vacation to Tahiti whenever we want. They are saying probably, the artists are screwed anyway. Artists are already happy working for peanuts. Let them be happy. That’s what they think. I guess to a certain extent they are right. I am happy working for peanuts because I don’t care about money. I am not doing this for money and …

OMB: Yeah but nobody else should be earning money on your music either.

Josh: But that’s the problem because if I worry about that, then I don’t want to make music. I don’t want to sit down and make music. I have my son. My time is already limited enough. When I am home, I only have a few hours a day when I can work on stuff. I don’t really think about it – too much. I have this list of things I need to address. With money that’s owed to me…

OMB: Then again everyone feels compelled to be on Spotify because it gets you publicity…I don’t have Spotify…

Josh: I like Spotify. I don’t support them but I like Spotify, the app. What I listen to on Spotify a lot is the new jazz releases. The technology does not bother me. It is just the …

OMB: The business behind it?

Josh: The business behind it. The disregard for artists. The attitude of the people who run Spotify and other streaming services. I have talked to them personally and I have had arguments with them and email exchanges and I am always right. And there are always wrong. But what can you do? They have got the power. 

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview

OMB: Your albums seemed well thought out. I would not go as far as call them concept albums but do you sit down and think about the album, what kind of atmosphere it should have and which song should go and which not, and a particular order to the songs? The albums seems so much in one piece. Some artists go as far as to think in A-sides and B-sides even. I don’t know, do you plan an album to be like that?

Josh: No. No, the closest I would come to this, is maybe having an idea for the artwork like for “The Blue Moods of Spain”, our first album. I really had a vision for the front cover. I worked on it really hard. I practised with a different photographer for a 7” that we put out in 1994 that was kind of a prototype for this “Blue Moods” cover. I worked on that very much and for it to come out the way it did, that took like a couple of years of work. But as far as the songs or the concept behind it…that was very much a collaboration between me and the producer. It’s not something I sketch out beforehand. Like, what songs do I have, what songs are the best ones? How do we narrow the best ones down. Then I might like a song that doesn’t really work for some reason. So, what songs work and what songs actually sound good once we record them? And you narrow it down like that. At least that’s how I work. For the new album…that’s another thing like: I have the songs but what’s the title going to be, what’s the artwork going to be? That comes just by messing around and doing research and thinking and looking at random things that come into my life. Choosing it, grabbing it and “okay, this works”. There are aesthetics to it but I am not strict about them. I like it to be permeable and – I don’t know what the word is – and…what’s the word…spontaneous! 

OMB: That is probably better for the listener to start owning a song too. If something is left more open, a listener can feel addressed more and go, that’s me who he is talking about or I feel touched by that kind of instrumentation. 

Josh: It can come either way. There are groups like Bon Ever who I really love, his lyrics, you have no idea what he is talking about. It’s poetry, definitely. They are lyrics and they are beautiful, but I have no idea what he is talking about! But then a word will come up in a certain part and I get, you know. So there is that kind of style and another style is Mark Kozelek who I toured with last year and listening to his lyrics which are very easy to understand and are super personal. Basically what he does is, he keeps a diary and he puts his diary entries to music. He talks about things that happened to him in his life in a very specific way but at the same time people love it because they can relate to it. Even though they did not have that exact same experience, it affects them. He is talking about the things he has learned from his life and it is the same kind of thing that everyone learns who lives long enough. That’s why people connect with his songs. That was really cool I thought. 

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview
Spain – Jakob Hoyer

OMB: You have come to the point where on your albums your lyrics have become more personal. On your last album “Carolina” you were connecting experiences of your family with bigger historical events or these events filtered through the eyes of your family. Did you want to do something similar on your new album “Mandala Brush” or did you attempt something totally different again?

Josh: Again I don’t really know. I don’t question myself how to create things or why. I just do it how I feel. I do have a basic idea which is I don’t want to do what I did on the last album. I want to do this certain thing and let’s see if it works. It might not work, then I have to try something else. “Carolina”, the last Spain record from 2016, and “Sargent Place’” which was from 2014, those two records were much more specific in addressing things that I was going through. The new album is more oblique, I guess, or amorphous. What I am singing about is not as…I could say what a song like “Battle Of Saratoga” from “Carolina” is about you know. The song is about my father. In the 1960s when he was addicted to heroin very badly and he was – this is just something I imagine he might have gone through – getting a gig in upstate New York for Christmas Eve and getting snowed in and not being able to get his heroin because he is in some little tiny town in New York and he can’t get back to the city. I could say that there are a lot of songs on that record and on “Sargent Place” where I wrote about something specific. But on the new album I don’t think there are any songs where I am talking about something specific and detailed. It is more like a feeling or an emotion I wanted to express. Or there is a song on the new album called “Tangerine” which was completely inspired by a movie called “Tangerine”. The song has nothing to do with what the movie is about. It is a beautiful movie called “Tangerine”. It came out maybe five years ago, I think. It is set in my town of Los Angeles and is about these transvestite prostitutes who work Santa Monica boulevard and it is like a Homer odyssian journey of these ladies who go from one part of Santa Monica boulevard to the other. It is such a great movie and it was shot on iPhone which isn’t such a special unique thing anymore. But after watching the director’s comments on the movie, I wrote “Tangerine”, the song. So there is something like that influenced by other art.

OMB: So it is more like a stream of consciousness?

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

OMB: You combine a lot of genres in your music. Sometimes it is hard for people to pin you down. They try Slowcore, whatever that is. I was told it is easier in the US to cross genres than in the UK for instance. Do you find it easier? Do find it easier to collaborate with musicians from other genres and what comes out of it is totally your own? 

Josh: I would say I don’t think about genres and maybe that is one of my big problems in getting my music accepted. I don’t care about genres and people in general want genres.

OMB: Or the algorithms want genres.

Josh: Yeah, I don’t worry about that. I write my songs and cross my fingers that someone is going to hear them and listen to them. Even when they don’t want to listen and don’t want to hear and don’t want to care,  I am still going to do it…You know, I was watching this show on TV with my son. It is this real estate show where people who are very wealthy show their incredible house. There was this guy, I don’t even remember his name. He is one of this techno guys – I don’t know his name. I was like “who is this?” and my son didn’t even know about him and my son knows a lot about new music. And this guy had a multi-million house in Hollywood hills. He was like 25 years old. Everything about this house was incredible. I googled his name and he is just some kid who makes electronic music. He’s been nominated for Grammys. I don’t pay attention to the Grammies, can’t remember the last time I watched the Grammies. But apparently he has been nominated multiple times. I listened to the music and it is not pleasant. It’s not creative in the sense of musicians getting together and being creative and trying to create something human, being social, being together. Experiencing what it means to be human as we are being human. I don’t know if that makes sense.

OMB: I don’t know. As in music making for the sake of it versus just selling any old stuff? It makes sense to me in that way: Too much money for a young kid and out of something that is out of the tin, no life experience, no nothing. Pretty thankful, my kids listen to different stuff, as yet anyway. 

Josh: My personal feeling is, more power to him, I am happy for him.

OMB: Sure, if he is nice enough.

Josh: Exactly, if he is nice enough. If he is a fair and honest person, a good human. 

OMB: Back to the genres… I don’t like tagging genres to my shows because I compile them according to how I feel and according to connections between the songs and they could contain any genre as long as there is a flow, a thread.

Josh: Yes, exactly. 

Spain's Josh Haden - an interview

OMB: Your new album “Mandala Brush”, there was one particular aim for it: You wanted it to be like a live recording, no fidgeting in the studio with the songs?

Josh: The idea came to me, even though it is not a very unique idea, when we finished touring for “Carolina” in 2016. My manager at the time wanted me to go right back on the road in the States. We don’t really have a lot of support in the States and I need to tour more there. I was like, you know, you know, er, … (Josh distracted because his sister Petra is checking whether is finally finished and he is making signs for her not to come in, poor Petra and Josh’s poor dinner getting cold…) … I don’t want to go back on tour. If I am going to make any headway in the States, what I am going to do is find a place where I can play every week once a week…

OMB: Oh, like a residency?

Josh: A residency. And develop my audience here first. You know, in the 90s when “Blue Moods Of Spain” came out, every major label wanted to sign me. I had Rick Rubin picking me up in his Rolls Royce, taking me to coffee and bookstore shopping and buying me books. I had the president of Columbia Records flying me out on a private jet to meet with them. I am not going to go into all the extravaganza that was put on me over Blue Moods, the first Spain album. The whole time I was thinking, you know, when we play in L.A., we don’t have an audience. Maybe twenty people show up to see us and ten of those people are just random off the street and they are just going to be talking through our whole set. And these guys want to offer me a million dollars to sign a contract. I was so young back then, I was, well, if they think it is the right thing to do, I am going to go along with it. That was really fatal for me, almost fatal. It turned into this war of wills between the record companies and it wasn’t about my music anymore. Once they signed me, Dreamworks, they didn’t care about me. They invited me to their Christmas party before they signed us and that was great, hobnobbing with George Michael. A year later I had signed with them and the Christmas party comes and they don’t invite me. They return my call in two seconds before I sign and after I sign, I disappear. They didn’t accept our record. Then they got sold and I had to hire a lawyer to threaten to sue them because they were in breach of contract. They owed me three hundred thousand dollars. It’s overwhelming to me. The lack of logic and the lack of reasoning that goes into the record business and the business part of it. 

OMB: Yes, all that money and where’s the music in all this?

Josh: So, when I was making “Mandala Brush” or before “Mandala Brush”, I was like, okay, I am almost fifty years old and I am finally have a residency that is open-ended. I found the great people at Spaceland in L.A. gave me a tiny little place to play every week for over a year. We played and worked out songs and worked with different people and brought it together. After a year of that, we still had the residency but once a week was too much and we changed it to once a month. So it’s the last Thursday of every month we play at The Love Song Bar in L.A.. Now we had to record an album, it was past due. So I said, I wish we could record the album here at The Love Song Bar but that’s too technically challenging. We had great support from Glitterhouse Records in Germany and in L.A. from the US label Dangerbird. We went into the studio for a week with the same core band that’s been playing for two years at The Love Song Bar and recorded what we do at The Love Song basically. With a little elaboration, you know, some song were new and we had never played them before. Like “Tangerine”, that song with Petra and Maddie D on saxophone, that’s the core group that plays that song. I was like, okay, for ‘“Tangerine”, Maddie, can you come on this particular morning and record with us? That’s what we did. So it is very much a live album, the whole band in one room, more or less in one room, very few overdubs. In fact, I don’t think there are any overdubs on “Tangerine”. Couldn’t have been because everyone is playing live. 

OMB: I think you can very proud of it. It’s an album you listen to on headphones and it just sounds perfect. 

Josh: Oh, thanks!

OMB: Any younger band would have needed a lot of studio fidgeting for that and you with all your experience just get on and play it like that. The craft in there is amazing. 

Josh: Thank you! It was funny, we had an assistant engineer, Roman – he is from Russia. He is an international guy, he travels as an in-demand studio engineer. And he was like, I can’t believe you guys record an album like this. Every project I work on is the band saying, every note has to perfect and has to be on time and we are working with a click track. You guys aren’t doing that. I never made an album like this before…And that is how they used to record in the old days. 

OMB: Excellent! Thank you so much, Josh! You better hurry down to your dinner now!

Josh: Not at all, thank you!

An interview with Mick Flannery

Mick Flannery hails from Blarney, Co. Cork, Ireland. For reasons that he reveals at his concerts, he has not kissed the Blarney Stone and might not have gained the gift of the gab, i.e. would not call himself talkative. Still, I can prove he can talk because here it is: An interview with Mick Flannery. Generally though, thankfully he pours all his wordsmithery into his songs that are acutely observed and razor-sharply worded held up by an uncanny talent for the melancholic and sometimes angry tune. The songs at times make you forget to breathe and they wrench your little heart.

He has released five albums so far, the lastest being “I Own You” (Universal). Currently he is on tour where you can catch him next week in Germany, followed by tour dates in the UK and later in summer in the US and Canada. Listening to Mick Flannery on record is the one thing, seeing him perform live the other. Not thinking he is a natural performer himself, he nonetheless has everybody’s attention not only through his music and his mastery of guitar and piano as well as owning a very soothing, yet rough voice (cannot explain it very well) that still can get shockingly loud – no, the banter in-between the songs is so deadpan and self-deprecating, it has the audience in tears, either with empathy or mirth or both.

Offbeat Music Blog had the fortune to see him perform at the beginning of April at Little Waves in Genk, Belgium and now again at the Poppodium Nieuwe Nor’s Kloostersessies in Heerlen, Netherlands. Indeed the gig took place in the chapel of an abbey, slap-bang in the middle of town and it is a very atmospheric place. Good sound, appreciative audience, a very friendly welcome. As usual, a big thank you to the Nieuwe Nor team for doing such a great job. Also thank you so much to Sheena and Susan at Blue Grace Music and of course Mick Flannery himself for making this interview possible!

Offbeat Music Blog: Thank you so much, Mick, for taking the time.

Mick Flannery: Yes, of course.

OMB: Let us start at the very beginning. You grew up outside a small place in Ireland and started doing music there as a teenager.

MF: I grew up outside the village of Blarney, a tourist town in Ireland. Music was a big part of my mother’s family. All of them, my aunts and uncles and my grandfather sang. They would have get-togethers at the pub sometimes and they would sing. A guitar would be passed around and people would take their turn. I got in to like the music they were singing, the different people like Tom Waits, Joni Mitchell, Tracy Chapman and Bob Dylan. Then I started to want to be involved, so I started to play the guitar a bit. I had been doing some piano lessons as well which I didn’t really enjoy so much, so I gave up. I just concentrated on the guitar and then later went back to the piano. 

OMB: Did you take guitar lessons as well or are you self-trained?

MF: Self-trained but I had some chord books. The chord books were written vertically. For a while I didn’t know I was playing the guitar upside down. 

OMB: Because you are left-handed.

MF: I am left-handed but I was playing a right-handed guitar. But it hasn’t really affected me that much. But I guess it is a little strange for people to see, especially guitar players that can’t tell which chords I am playing. My hands look odd to them.

OMB: Does it put a strain on your hands?

MF: No, it doesn’t really affect much. I guess it is not the best method for doing solos like Slash or someone like that because the high strings are on the other side of the guitar. They are not so much available to you. But that’s okay, I get away with it. 

An interview with Mick Flannery

OMB: You are sort of dismissive of your earlier work, finding it not so original. I do hear more original Mick Flannery in your newer albums. Have you found the real Mick Flannery?

MF: I don’t know if I have. With the earlier stuff I can hear the definite influences of Tom Waits. And I can hear myself emulating his voice too much. It kind of annoys me and embarrasses me now. I still use americanisms when I write. I find it hard to get away from using American phrases. It’s just seems to be the language of songwriting in the English language. It seems to use americanisms like the word “ain’t” appears a lot in songs but it doesn’t appear in common parlance, especially on this side of the Atlantic. For that reason I don’t know if I’ve actually found any Mick Flannery voice as yet. Maybe when I am older. I am still a stew of influences at the moment. 

OMB: I do find that in your later albums there is less a mix of genres and it becomes a more definite style. But in Ireland there would be a strong tradition of being connected to the US anyway, also musically, rather than to England?

MF: That’s who my family were interested in. That’s true of Ireland in a lot of ways. We import and seem to have some affinity with country music as well. Like Johnny Cash is big in Ireland. And I guess because of our history with England, we feel less obliged to follow their musicians (laughs) even though we follow their soccer teams religiously…a strange thing. For me anyway, there is a lot of American influence. Which is fine, there’s been a lot of very good music coming from America.

OMB: Absolutely nothing wrong with it. You were signed at a young age to a major label in Ireland. Was that luck or is it also because Ireland has such a low population?

MF: It was a mixture of things, I guess. The last point is definitely true. It is a low population. It is a small market for the music industry. So a big label – I mean there’s only a few labels in Ireland, I think, there might be only two left really. People would have their own small labels but they would be only for individual work really.  And lucky? I guess so. Even though the timing would seem to be bad, considering the changes in the industry. By two years into my contract, the industry was having a panic attack due to the technology’s influence. Not long afterwards, EMI itself, the company who’d signed me, was sold to Universal. So I found myself in a move from one stable to another without really…I guess what sometimes artists really need is a champion on the business side, someone who has some type of emotional bond or pride attached to you doing well. That may have slightly disappeared once I moved from EMI to Universal because it wasn’t Universal’s idea to sign me really. I was just moved over. Not that they haven’t worked but it is just: I am not their baby. Yeah, Ireland is a small market, so it’s possible if I were more forward thinking and ambitious, I would have tried to go abroad and get a record deal. Then I’d have been more likely to have a worldwide record deal rather than just an Irish one which is a little bit restrictive. 

OMB: Did you ever think of self-promoting or self-releasing or would that not be your thing at all?

MF: Well, back to lucky. I have been lucky enough not to have to do it too much. And that makes me really bad at it. I have always been bad at self-promotion and I don’t really see myself getting better at it. I got spoiled, I think. 

OMB: When you wrote your albums, did you have a goal in mind, something that you wanted to achieve in particular with the album?

MF:  Yeah, sometimes. The album that is the most cohesive is the last one before the new one (“I Own You”, 2016, Universal) “By The Rule” (2014, Universal) which was all done in a small time with live takes. It gives it a sound of itself. Then to listen to it, I sometimes feel it feels longer, that there are too many songs on it or that it sounds all too the same. The last album was more of a departure into different types of production. Some of it sounds more aggressive. A friend of mine said to me that it seems to him that, me included, but a lot of other artists as well, seem to have reactions to their previous work. So they create a work and it is, say, missionless or blind as to what it is going to be and it is just a bunch of songs. And then have a reaction to this. “I don’t want to do that anymore, I want to do something else”. So you just do the other. And then you move on to another again. I can see what he meant. I see it in myself as well. I guess if there was any arc or progression, it would be from the topics, the subject matters of the songs. When I was younger, a lot of them were personally based, personal experience. As I get older…I think as people get older they think less of themselves as individual and their feelings so unique, they start to view the world a little more broadly. So rather than writing about your condition, you tend to write about the human condition a bit more. 

OMB: I saw you play at Little Waves festival in Genk, two women were sitting behind me and they kept exclaiming: “Oh dear, oh dear, aaaaaw, the poor man. Oh dear. Such heartbreak. Too much for an individual person to bear.” I found your announcements actually very funny because they are so deadpan but I would agree: Too much for one person. Are these all your experiences or do you abstract it too and use other people’s experiences?

MF: Part of it would be personal. Then there are other ones that are, not so much stolen but I kind of attach myself a little bit or something. There are songs which aren’t autobiographical but you can’t help but have some piece of yourself seep in. So I do pretend to be other people sometimes. When I hear them speak or hear them use some turn of phrase that kind of encapsulates their whole life at that point for me, then I take that and put it in. I take on characters sometimes. I get to the melodies first and the melodies kind of ask you to write a certain thing because the melody won’t support any different subject matter. If the melody sounds pining, then you write towards it. If you buck away from it and the melody is pining but wrote something really angry, then that is not going to really work. 

OMB: Your songs are more on the, well, not negative scale, but on the angrier, more melancholic side. There are not too many happy songs about in works. As much as I would wish someone well and to be happy, would you still be able to write songs? Are you at your most creative when you are not happy?

MF: I would think so, possibly, yeah, because it stirs your brain up. It makes you uncomfortable, it makes you kind of different to what you normally are. It throws a storm around in your head as you consciously try to figure it out. That is probably a good time to be creative. I found in the past that when things are going badly or someone wrongs me or if I am angry, in some situations that can be useful. 

OMB: Do you find it cathartic?

MF: Yeah, it would help. If you are getting back at someone especially. (Lots of laughter). “Can’t wait for them to hear this! Bastards!” (More laughter).

OMB: When you perform older songs, does this transport you back in time or do you find the songs get a new meaning?

MF: You have to kind of apply it elsewhere, I think. Because the feelings of the time are gone, pretty much, beyond you. If the songs is good enough, the audience members will be able to attach themselves to it as well. If the song is able to do that for them, it should be able to do it for you as well. You should be able to apply different meanings to it as you moved on from the original one. That’s why people don’t use specific names and specific incidents or sometimes they do. In that sense the songs don’t really last. 

An interview with Mick Flannery

OMB: You spent some time in Berlin to get out. Why out of all places Berlin? I would have probably seen you choosing the US more like.

MF: I don’t know really. A friend of mine had been to Berlin. He said it was a great place to go with a lot of art happening there, a melting pot of different nationalities. That was true. I like my time in Berlin even though it was a little bit kind of solitary. I just wanted to move somewhere I think. There was a promotions company interested in working with me around Germany. One of the albums had been picked up by the EMI branch of Germany. So I thought, if there is going to be a bit of work around, I might as well be there rather than go to America and have to cross the Atlantic. I just wanted to get away from my comfort zone. I’d been knocking around Cork City in Ireland for ten years, leaving away from home, drinking too much in the same places, not really doing anything new. I got sick of myself.

OBM: How long did you spend there?

MF: I was there for three months the first time I went. And then, I think it was a year and a half the second time. 

OBM: You spent some time in New York too.

MF: I spent three months in New York when I was twenty-one. Knocking around singer-songwriter nights and stuff like that. That was my first delve into ambition. But I didn’t really believe in myself that much. I didn’t have enough songs anyway and I shied away from it and went back home. 

OBM: You were very young though.

MF: Yeah, it’s hard to know. Sometimes I give myself a hard time for not sticking it out in New York and say to myself, oh, you should have stayed there and gone properly ambitious and met the right people. But I don’t know. It’s hard to say. Maybe I have a bit of a home bird instinct in me. Or maybe I just like a quiet life. 

OBM: Well, New York is hectic.

MF: Yeah, I just don’t know. What I enjoy most is writing songs and it seems to take me quite a while to ferment stuff. I can’t rush myself. My brain works as fast as it works. It seems a have a certain gearbox in my head and I am stuck in one of them (laughs) and I can churn out maybe sixteen songs every two years, maybe a little bit more. Then twelve of them will be worth being on an album. I am okay with that. I am kind of okay with the level of ambition I have had as well, the level of success which has been good. It hasn’t been astronomical but it has given me my own space to do what I really like to do.

OBM: And you can live on it.

MF: I am not rich, so I am not detached from society.

OBM: Still grounded, yeah. 

MF: Yeah and I am not super famous, you know, it’s fine.

OBM: You also work or maybe not so often now as a stonemason. A lot of people see a contradiction between working as a stonemason and as a musician. It is not really, is it? Both being creative professions.

MF: Yes, it is and I liked it. I still like it. I don’t do as much as I used to. It is creative and it is kind of calming. If I go on holidays, I have to bring a guitar because I don’t play the guitar. It calms me down. Building is probably a bit harder physically than playing the guitar but it calms me down. It’s relaxing – as long as it is not snowing on you. (Laughs).

OBM: Is there any other artist you would like to work together with? Maybe in Ireland which has such a huge music scene for a relatively small place?

MF: Sometimes, yeah. I don’t know, look, I don’t know I could work with anyone else because I am kind of such a solo artist, I guess. It’s nice to meet the other people in the business and be on a gig with them or have a chat about what it’s been like for them. Maybe have a singsong somewhere – that’s always fun. I have been doing a few more bits of co-writing recently which is interesting. It is never the same. Whatever comes out is always a little bit scary for me, because it’s not really mine and there are things about it I would change and avenues I wouldn’t have gone down maybe. We’ll see. The Irish music scene is good. It seems it’s always been healthy. I guess there’s just a lot of people around. The younger generation is always going to see someone is doing it, someone getting somewhere with it. They can see the bigger examples of it like, I dunno, U2, Phil Lynott or Van Morrison. Big examples of people who have gone far in that industry. I guess they just believe they can do it to.

OBM: I found that in Ireland people, especially young people, still attend gigs a lot and go to record stores and play themselves rather than just listening to a list of what’s offered to them on the charts or by the music industry. There is more of a go out and get it, a looking for it attitude, I reckon.

MF: The Irish are good music fans as well and they pride themselves of having a good knowledge of music, not just pop music.

OBM: You do record with a band. I suppose, you perform with the band in Ireland but you did not bring them with you abroad?

MF: It is a financial restriction, you know. The gigs aren’t big enough in Europe at the moment to be able to afford to bring a band. I would like to even though it is so unhealthy. Too much fun.

OBM: Too much partying?

MF: It is impossible to avoid. It is just a circus. It is a pity because it so much fun when the guys and girls do come.  They have all such fun and I really enjoy the fact that all this fun is slightly because of me. It makes me feel good. I kind of regret that I can’t always have that party going on.

OBM: Stating that what you like most is writing the songs, would you call yourself a natural performer?

MF: No, I wouldn’t have been but I am getting better at it the more comfortable I get. I am just more experienced now. I kind of know what will work at various times. I think I can get a feel for the audience when they are getting bored. I don’t really have a setlist. I am long enough in the tooth as well – I have five albums worth of stuff. So I don’t really have to get bored myself. I can pick stuff from here and there. I always have to play more upbeat songs to break the rhythm of the evening but that’s okay. 

OBM: At present you are not only on tour, you are also writing new songs. What direction are the new songs going in?

MF: There’s a lot to do with desire and ambition actually and the internal battle that people have with their dreams and their goals, the level of pride you might attach to your status in whichever field you are striving in. So that’s kind of a buddhist album (laughs). It is a little bit of a brain exploration, I guess, in parts. So more of the human condition stuff again. 

OBM: Are you ambitious?

MF: Not really, no. I dunno, pride does peak its head up now and again. (Long thinking pause.) I guess if you work a lot at something and the quality is good and you felt that you had worked hard at getting lyrics right…It’s hard to think about it. There is some ambition lurking around at the back of my head alright. I don’t know where I’d like to be. But I know when I get there, I won’t be happy (laughs). I think I’d like to meet some of the people that I like in the business like Tom Waits or Bruce Springsteen. But that’s true for a lot of people. A lot of people would like to meet them (bursts out laughing). Maybe there’s some part of me that would like to play a song to Bruce Springsteen and have him say that it’s good. That’s an ambition of mine. I dunno, I sometimes think does acknowledgement become addictive? Do you get addicted to positive appraisals? This is part of the unhealthy stuff…maybe not healthiest stuff to have in your head. It’s important to be happy to be just happy yourself with what you have done. There is a guy I really like in Ireland. His name is Blindboy Boatclub. He’s from a band called The Rubber Bandits. He talks a lot about self-evalutation and self-actualisation, having an internal locus of evaluation rather than exporting it to somebody else which I think is wise. I must try and keep that up.